Philosophy of the Love Song-- Vinyl, July 1985 Words: Joost Niemoller. Translation from Dutch: Ellen Pronk.
"I do not live the life of a traditional rock-star, I do not promote it, I do not validate it. I see myself as an amateur who happened to became involved in the business through punk. I'm only playing with historically arisen values and I assume they play with me. I don't consider what I do as entertainment as in Gary Glitter representing the old tradition of entertainers with new equivalents in Limahl and Paul King. They are performers more than musicians. I think I'm much too distanced for that, too 'relativerend'." Anyhow, you do plan to perform, at least. "Well, let's say I hope to. Frankly I get nervous at the thought alone. First we're gonna rehearse to see how things work out." It won't be easy to perform the music from the record live on stage. "We won't strive for an identical sound. The essence of Scritti Politti is the songs. I know many associate Scritti with black dance music, but everything is based on a melody on a piano or a guitar. The arrangements on the record are based on recording techniques. Live versions require extended arrangement changes. I don't like the idea at all of putting all this machinery on stage. If I do perform, I want to do that with a close, organic band. No drum computer, but a drummer. That on its own is a challenge." If you stand on stage, you are a performer. "Yes, I really look up against that. I don't know what to do about it. Especially in England Scritti does have many female fans. It surprises me. I don't understand it and frankly it bothers me. I know only too well how artificial the relationship is between a pop star and his fans. Every real contact is made impossible by the mythologization by the media. Fact is, you look at yourself on a promotion picture and you are surprised by the figure you don't know. I am certain I will be a big disappointment for all these girls once they get to know me. My interests in culture, politics, philosophy won't be shared by them. On the other hand...of course it's great people show their enthusiasm for your music. You would be fooling yourself by staying extremely anonymous. It's ridiculous to not do interviews with Smash Hits, not perform on Top of the Pops, or not make videos. I couldn't think of a good reason not to do an interview with Smash Hits. It's not a reactionary medium, like some papers are. It's nothing more than a--in it's own way--healthy form of self-deception."
"Hardly. I used to read and write a lot, but that has faded away. I do know for sure that it will return one day. It's the big advantage of my amateurism, it's liberating towards the future. I see that's not the case with other people. It's not the case for someone obsessed with fame like Paul King, or for someone like David Gamson, with whom I collaborate. They have given all they got. It doesn't mean I don't take my music seriously. I work with everything I got, but I would do that with everything I do." Your background means you can put layers of meaning into your work which the listener won't notice. It can be a weak excuse for everyday pop music. The Gang of Four had that problem. "I can't deny that. But what can I do to change that? The 'intellectual' background has been there all my life and is set in my subconsciousness like New Jersey, American cars and whatever else are set in Bruce Springsteen's subconsciousness. I would betray myself if I were to change my language for the masses. I admit my lyrics don't get clearer like this. Others have to decide if they like that or not. However, the intentions of the artists are irrelevant to me. It doesn't interest me if Michael Jackson wants to make a lot of money or wants to support his conviction as a Jehovah's Witness. His records are important to me on my own terms. It's senseless to get to the intentions of the artist. You won't learn anything when you know exactly what Jackson Pollock thought and felt when he worked on a painting. The works start to lead their own life and that is what counts. The importance of an artwork shapes itself in relation to its time, for example in relation to other artworks. Intentions are a reactionary myth to me. Too much criticism tries to convey the intentions of the artist, and only after that tries to determine if the artwork is in line with those intentions. Biographical context is blown way out of proportion. An artist is shaped by his/her time, so it's the time which is important. For one thing, when you're conscious of the influences motivating you, it's not possible to create something. You have to allow yourself a certain amount of irresponsibility, I think, what Foucault names active forgetfulness. In this almost unconscious state, the creative process starts to work." Is it possible to get yourself in that state on purpose? "It depends. The writing of lyrics differs enormously from musical composing. To be able to compose I have to stay away from instruments for a long time. Adjustment is fatal to me. Sometimes I really want to play guitar, but I postpone it again and again. When I do play, the sensation is so big, it seems like discovering the instrument all over again. In that state of euphoria a composition comes out nearly effortlessly. Writing is work, a torture of doubts, abstractions, reflections. Each song has known nearly twenty, thirty previous versions."
"Well...the other day someone said to me all the lyrics sound like love songs. That's right. Words like 'girl', 'love' and 'heart', with a lot of 'ooh's' and 'aah's' in between. It doesn't sound very political. I do not express myself in the polemics of pop, like the new songs of the Style Council. It's the vocabulary of the love song. In the end though I think no song is without political reference. Songs like Small Talk, The Word Girl, Perfect Way and Absolute do have political meaning for me. These are songs about ethics, about problems in language, about truth. Or, very concretely: what is the right action in a specific situation? These are difficult philosophical and political problems. But they also are problems stated normally in pop songs. What should I do? What's going on? What's the truth? In pop songs everyday questions are dealt with in a more abstract level." It can't be no other way. When you sing about a dog in a song, it will become a symbolic dog. "Yes, but I do put in the symbolic content on purpose. Like with A Little Knowledge. The first layer is about a relation between two people which has broken up cuz they knew each other too well. The second layer is more abstract, it's about getting used to something and the loss of value which comes with that. Every sentence has a second meaning like that. In Small Talk there is a sentence 'if it's worth doing it's worth doing badly'. It's a twist of the proverbial truth that 'if something is worth doing, it's worth doing right', but is 'something is worth doing, then its worth doing badly'. This was a thought, simplified, of the philosopher A.N. Whitehead. I read that during my studies and it kinda stuck. Now I sing (he sings very fast) 'if it's a thing worth doing it's worth doing badly baby yeah ooh'. The deeper meaning will pass you by completely." The character of your voice makes every song go about the same emotion. An introvert form of being in love which paralyses. "Interesting.It's hard for me to understand what emotion my voice brings about, but I think it's a sad longing. The most up-tempo moments do have something melancholic. Anyway, all my favourite songs are happy sad songs. In Michael Jackson's case it always seems to be about longing, about desire. Each time his voice seems to break by an overwhelming emotion and that is what touches you. That emotional charge in his records I find most important. Something like that can't be learned through techniques." Do you use electronic effects to make your voice sound so high? "No, it's a way of breathing. I hardly use my chest for resonance. It's not hard, only tiring at times."
"Oh yeah, a lot. On many different levels. It's interesting to see what comes out of the 'active forgetfulnesss' which I mentioned earlier. It was revealing to see how many times I did write about girls or being in love. Also...the styles you choose, the illustrations that interest you for covers. On a social level I got to know a lot about myself by making this record. When you work intensely with other musicians, personal situations are created where you learn to discern where and how you feel influences are important and where you will put your ego on top. These situations are very sensitive. In essence you can't talk about these things. Apart from that, you learn carefully to deal with the alienation the music industry brings about..." How do you get to know yourself through making video clips? "Well....I don't know how to represent emotion. I know how to express it. They are two different things. I can express anger or fear, but when I need to represent it, I get into big trouble. I think that is my biggest problem. In essence it revolves around the question of how much you allow yourself to be symptomatic for pop. I love it, I think it's important, but is that sufficient to represent yourself in the vocabulary of pop music? Or maybe I'd rather not represent that the question why pop music matters is interesting to me? And if you want to, how could you do that without becoming abstract completely? I'm very unsure on that point. I'm not sure if this is a good answer to your question...." You could have answered that the way you deal with images is comparable to the way you deal with sounds and words. "It's not like that. It does in the sense that my story about representation is valid for music and words as well. It's the difference between wanting to be James Joyce or the person who explains James Joyce. I'm caught in between. Not that I would dare to measure myself against James Joyce. It's odd that in James Joyce's books there is the continual fluctuation between expression and representation." Could you give an example how this is interwoven in your songs? "...(long silence)...On a record you can express a certain force. The force of dance music for instance. At the same time you can comment on that force in the lyrics. This happens in I'll Take You There from The Staple Singers. The rhythm, the music, everything expresses freedom and the lyrics seem to explain this. At the same time, the lyrics are opaque, ambiguous because words can not express fully. And those kind of lyrics I like the best."
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..Almost three years in the waiting for Scritti Politti's second album, Cupid
& Psyche '85 proved to be worth the wait after the sometimes brilliant,
but on the whole disappointing debut Songs to Remember. Perfectionist
Green Gartside delivered a coherent product with depth, which proves commerce
and intellect can work together. Concerning his uncertainty about self-promotion
he doesn't play macho in interviews....